IT IS NOT UNREASONABLE to posit that Jen Sincero invented a whole genre of self-help books by positioning herself as the perpetually funny, older sister who’s gotten her ass kicked, gotten back on her veritable horse, and then figured out how to kick ass herself.
For Jen, it’s simply second nature to say something funny. In her books, she usually does that within a couple of paragraphs. In person, it shows up early — and often.
This is a woman who was once in a rock band and wrote blurbs for albums. Today she does a lot of singing and happily shows up impromptu for lots of concerts.
Appropriately enough, Jen thinks her next book, a novel perhaps, will be a comedy.
You are a New York Times bestselling author, speaker and as you say, motivational cattle prod. So what do you do for fun?
I’m always hiking. Always being out in nature. Laughing as much as I possibly can. Reading a lot of books. Traveling. My big thing is traveling to go see live music — finding a band on tour that I love and then making a trip out of that.
What is it about live music?
You’re inside the music as opposed to just listening to it. Seeing them perform, you’re part of the creative process. It’s like a party. And when you travel to do it, the whole reason for the travel becomes going to that party. You experience a new place. It’s really one of my greatest joys. Especially if I can sit down.
I went to see The Brian Jonestown Massacre at Tumbleroot the other night. I went by myself. I didn’t have a ticket. It was sold out for months, but I really wanted to see them, so I got off my ass. I got in, and these ladies sitting right next to the stage offered me a seat. We ended up having the best time together.
The guitar player was talking to us between songs and you just get rolled into the music because you’re there as it’s being created. You’re part of the creative process, as opposed to listening to it while you’re making a lasagna.
I do love singing. I think singing is truly one of the most joyful things. Singing and dancing are like the two happiest activities I can think of.
In your career, people seek your advice; you give advice, you write books, you speak.
I think this is very Santa Fe-centric, because a lot of people are in my age range — retired but still vibrant, still wanting to do stuff, but maybe not wanting to keep doing the same thing. It’s not a midlife crisis, but it’s like a rebranding of who you have been. So it’s almost like, I don’t just want to go back and play the guitar because that’s what I always used to do.
What do I feel like doing now that I’m 60? I’ve been in a couple-year phase where I’m like, what the hell am I doing with my life? Do I feel like I need to do something because society only values you by how much you produce? Or do I want to be doing something because I want to be doing something? For me, that’s been really challenging because I was like, could my life just be traveling to go see concerts and reading great books and laughing my ass off with my friends and visiting the people I love? It sounds pretty good to me.
In the meantime, I’m just going to enjoy myself and pay attention to what lights me up, and every time I find something that lights me up, follow it. So right now, it’s singing and I’m doing a lot on social media. I hired a social media expert, and now I’m making videos for social media — she’s doing most of the writing, but I’m doing videos.
It’s kind of the way Badass started, where I was doing the self-help thing and I was a coach, sort of following the rules, and then the longer I did it and the more relaxed I became and the more I paid attention to what was fun and interesting to me, that’s when I started writing all of my stuff in my own voice and marrying it with the self-help stuff as opposed to doing what everybody else was doing.
I’ll tell you an idea I have that hasn’t taken off yet, but that I’m hoping I’ll do, because I think it sounds really fun. Everybody does a podcast, and I’ve had so many people tell me I should do a podcast, but a podcast to me is the same thing as speaking, where you’re just spewing out information, and it’s not interactive. I mean, you can interview somebody on the podcast and that’s kind of fun, but my favorite part is being in the hot seat with people asking questions, so I’m gonna do what I’m calling the lo-fi, high-vibe, badass call-in radio show of sorts.
Your audience, who are they?
Mostly women. Women who are entrepreneurs, who have already had some success. I also have a lot of men and a lot of younger people.
Is it mostly women because they’re generally more conscious and they’re willing to make fun of themselves, talk honestly about themselves, not get all caught up with what people may think?
You are totally right. There’s rigidity in the masculine identity, and fluidity of the feminine. Women can ask questions. First of all, we’re allegedly stupider than men, according to the patriarchy. But we’re just freer, even asking for directions, right? That’s the old joke. You can’t even ask for directions, because you have to have it all together and know everything. So it’s not fair. In fact, I tried to start a coaching group just for men and I could not get anybody.
So I try to remind people that we always have a choice where we place our focus and how we choose to perceive things and what kind of attitude we have about things. And I think that if you can get a handle on that and just stop whatever pattern you have that’s not bringing you happiness — that is what I’m mostly interested in. And I love entertaining people. I love being entertained by people. That’s really probably the bottom line of all of it, truly.
I would love to write something that’s just a comedy. Just write a dead brilliant comedy. If I ever sit my ass down and write another book, it will probably be more of a comedic novel. And I’m sure it’ll be preachy because I am a preachy bitch, so that’ll probably come in there, but it started with my first book, Don’t Sleep with Your Drummer, about being in a rock band.
What was that about?
It started out as a memoir, but then I just kept coming up with all these other characters that I thought were hilarious, so it veered off into novel land. It was about a chick who quits her corporate job and starts a rock band. It’s about having the audacity to follow your dreams when everybody else tells you you’re being a big fat idiot. So I feel like my preachiness will seep into anything I do, but I would like to do another book like that where it’s starting out more with just a fun idea and really fun characters and see where it goes.
We could use some of that these days.
Yeah, I do think it’s really important to stay informed, though, and it’s such a delicate line between falling over the edge into utter hopelessness and terror and sadness and all that stuff, and keeping your center strong and your ability to see — to be available for a solution, you know?
I think that’s a really fine line, and I think, personally, that it’s about exposure — talking about ideas with my friends, reading the news, all that stuff, is totally vital, especially now. But I think what happens is we get addicted to that — we get addicted to going into the nitty gritty of it and staying there and getting tossed around by it to the point where we’re just lying face down on the floor, and then you can’t help anybody. So, first of all, I think it is about monitoring your exposure and paying very close attention to how you’re feeling.
Sometimes I put my head in the sand for a couple days and sometimes I go super dark and freak myself out. So I think that’s really important. And then I think you do what you can where you’re at — every day just make a commitment to really being of service in some way in the world. It doesn’t have to be — it can be huge, it can be donating lots of money, it can be donating a dollar, it can be smiling at people, volunteering, whatever it is. But I think just being conscious of moving the needle in the direction you want it to go.
We have such a short amount of time on planet Earth. I don’t want to spend it feeling like crap.
What draws you to Santa Fe?
I think it is one of the most beautiful places on planet Earth. I’ve been here for over eleven years and every day I look at the sky, I look at my yard, I look at downtown, and I think it is really just one of the most beautiful places I’ve ever been. And with the best weather. And that is easily the number one thing for me here.
I’m just a geographer of it, and the proximity to mountains and streams and desert and humongous sky. I feel like we live with the ocean over our heads here in New Mexico. And we’re near Colorado and Utah and all the places that light up my soul. So for me, it is about the nature 100%. And I do think there are a lot of weirdos in this town, which I like. I like a good group of weirdos.